Episode 19: Don't Buy a Hawks Jersey

Welcome to the Red Black Comeback Podcast, a podcast that is ostensibly about the rebuilding efforts of the Toronto Raptors and the Portland Trailblazers, but it is about so much more than that, including but not limited to the cities of Toronto and Portland, the histories of Toronto and Portland, the WNBA teams that are starting to play in Toronto and Portland later this year, asterisk because the WNBA does not have a CBA yet.

It is also about basketball fandom, NBA or otherwise, WNBA or otherwise.

It’s about history.

It’s about tradition.

It’s about John Hayes, my co-host in Portland, and me.

My name is Dave.

I’m in Toronto.

John, how are you doing?

Doing great, Dave.

It’s a big day today in the NBA, as you know.

Yes, it’s Thursday.

Thursday, but it is also February 5th, which means it’s the end of the trade deadline.

It’s coming up.

All kinds of stuff happening.

What?

Tell me about it.

I have not been paying attention at all.

I definitely haven’t been glued to all my devices for the last 48 hours trying to figure out what the league’s going to look like when it all shakes out.

Yeah, I mean, it’s been crazy.

You know, sometimes it’s hard to turn around and say, oh, this was a good deadline or this was a bad deadline or whatever.

And I know that we live in a culture that, you know, when it comes to sports, we talk about it as if like there is some empirical ranking and there isn’t.

But I will say that this has been a very strange trade deadline.

How do you think?

I don’t want to go into specifics just yet, but like, yeah, give me your impressions of just like how it’s been, not what has happened, just how it’s been, how it’s felt, what it’s looked like, how confusing it’s been or whatever, because I have my own, obviously.

Yeah, so going into the trade deadline, there was a lot of speculation that John Morant was going to move or Giannis was going to get moved.

Neither of those things happened.

I think they were sort of holding a sort of specter over the rest of the league.

And I think some people thought that nothing much was going to happen until one or both of those things happened.

And amazingly, a lot has happened even without either one of them happening.

It’s been actually a pretty active, pretty active trade deadline.

And some of the moves are kind of intriguing and exciting.

And, you know, the Blazers made a move.

The Raptors made a move.

Why don’t we start with the Blazers?

Because this is a Blazers Raptors podcast, and obviously we want to look at everything that we want to discuss everything within the lens of that.

So, like, why don’t we start with how you’re feeling about the Blazers?

And then we’ll talk about the moves that the Blazers and the Raptors have made.

And then we’re going to go into the trade deadline.

So I just want to make sure that we’re sort of chaptering for our listeners in case they want to, like, you know, take a break and figure out what’s coming up.

So why don’t you tell me what’s going on in Portland right now?

How are you feeling with your team?

I actually feel pretty good.

We made a trade.

Duop Reith, who was out for the season with season-ending surgery, was traded to Atlanta for Vitt.

And I’m still learning how to say his last name.

Krejci.

Krejci.

Vitt Krejci, who is the only Czech player in the NBA, and I love that his nickname is Heat Check.

I love that.

Got to actually see him play in person, his first game with the Blazers.

He looked nervous and didn’t play very well, which actually I was kind of… I think he’s coming off injury too, big guy.

Well, but I mean I’m excited that he looked nervous.

Like he wants to play.

He wants to fit in.

He’s going to try hard to fit in to this Blazers roster, which desperately needs outside shooting, and he brings it hopefully in volume.

I’m a huge Vitt Krejci fan.

I think that later on I’m going to get into why I think Atlanta has made outstanding, tremendous moves, and I love so many of their moves.

But this was about money.

This wasn’t about you don’t fit on our team.

So I think that Portland, you know, like your front office has been just banger after banger after banger.

I’ve been impressed since – well, basically since the beginning of us knowing each other, which is only like a year and change ago, right?

So that’s right.

I host a podcast with somebody who I met a year ago.

Deal with it, America, and to a lesser extent Canada and to a lesser extent Denmark.

Yeah, so it’s – the one thing that I love about this trade is that if you go – I mean I know you can only take so much from Reddit, but the fact that I go to the Atlanta Hawks Reddit, subreddit, and they are mad.

The fans are mad that Vitt is no longer on the team.

Well, I mean like, OK, let’s be 100 percent clear.

People on Reddit, their opinions and their moods are not always indicative of the larger fandom.

But also – I don’t disagree.

Also, you can’t look at the Vitt Krejci trade in a vacuum because we all know what happened after that.

So I – but I understand.

You told me that the night that Vitt debuted for Portland.

So – and I agree.

Like I think that Vitt Krejci was a guy that a lot of people liked.

That said, you know, I think that if there are Hawks fans listening to this, and I know that there is at least one who might listen to it, my buddy Tony.

And I told him last night.

I told Tony last night, and I’ll tell him what – tell you what I told him.

Like I was a really big fan of the moves, and we can talk about the big guy that Atlanta landed that would kind of like necessitate getting rid of Krejci.

And I’m pretty sure that they’re going to buy out or waive Reith.

But I – you know, Atlanta’s got a bunch of the same guy too, right?

I mean like that’s always been Atlanta’s thing.

They had DeJuante Murray and Trey Young in the backcourt, and then they drafted Kobe Bufkin.

So it seemed like one of them was going to get traded.

Now Kobe didn’t pan out or hasn’t panned out yet, but that was conventional wisdom.

And then they traded DeJuante for Dyson Daniels, and they have this great season.

Dyson Daniels actually starts – takes that step and starts looking good to the point that they trade Trey.

And it’s like, okay, well now they’re – I got to figure that Atlanta’s goal in this draft is to get Darren Peterson, and that’s a conversation for a different day.

But like Vitt Krejci is long, and he can shoot, and he can play – he’s a three and D guy.

He is very, very creative and athletic, but so is Asa Newell, who they just drafted in the first round.

And so is Nikola Juricic, who they drafted in the second round last year.

And so is – you know, like look at that team.

It’s all wings.

So like you deal from a position of strength.

And I think that the front office in Atlanta – there’s a lot of credit for being decisive with the Trey Young trade to Washington first, and now this Vitt Krejci trade, and then the big trade that we’ll talk about in a bit.

But like you guys haven’t made huge moves, right?

Like this was your move, and the only thing that’s bad about this move is that, you know, Duwop Reith is very well-loved in Portland.

But, you know, like so generally speaking, you’re okay with what’s happened and what has not happened?

Yeah, I mean overall, yes.

I mean I am still shocked that Jeremy Grant is on the team given his contract and his position in the roster, in the lineup.

Well, he’s still on the team.

But when everyone is – We still have like 12 hours.

Yeah, it’s true.

It’s true.

But I do – I will not be surprised if either he or Drew or Time Lord get traded before the deadline.

All three of those guys are great people.

They’re great players, you know, looked at in a vacuum.

But they don’t fit the current roster long-term when everyone is healthy and the timeline.

So we’ll see.

And Drew and Jeremy in particular have big contracts.

Drew was acquired to basically get off Anfernee Simons, right?

And the thing is they took on salary because Drew costs more and his contract is for longer.

So there was a plan.

And I got to figure that that plan includes like nurturing the young guard talent in Portland, right?

Scoot Henderson who hasn’t made a season debut yet.

Shaden Sharp obviously.

And Shaden’s – I don’t know what I’d say.

Shaden’s taking a step, but he’s definitely making – like he’s doing what he should be expected to do with the minutes that he has been allotted.

Obviously, Danny is not a guard, but like generally speaking, like getting Anfernee Simons off your team allows for somebody else to be a primary ball handler or at least have a higher usage rate.

Now, obviously, Danny Avdia has been a guy who has benefited from that.

So I – yeah.

Dave, I mean don’t forget too when we drafted Drew, Damian Lillard was not on the roster, right?

So now we have Damian Lillard on the roster and Drew Holiday, two solid locker room guys.

And unfortunately for Drew long term, there’s probably not a spot for him.

So whether he gets traded at this trade deadline or something happens in the You know, like, I know that that sounds ludicrous to say out loud, but sometimes, like, there’s a lively conversation in baseball circles about salary caps, salary floors, and revenue sharing, and whatever, and the gist is that there are certain teams, like the Dodgers, that spend, spend, spend, spend, spend, and defer, like, a billion dollars of contracts down the line because they’re a very rich franchise, and there’s a team like Pittsburgh that doesn’t spend, and why wouldn’t you spend to put a good product on the field is because you’re making money from revenue sharing from big markets, so if the ownership in Pittsburgh doesn’t want to put a good product on the field, it doesn’t really matter, right, and they’re going to basically be a farm team for better teams like the Yankees and the Dodgers and, you know, to a certain extent, the Blue Jays, too, right, because we’re a big market team and we finally started to spend like it, but, you know, you turn that around to the NBA and it’s like, well, you know, there are certain organizations that expect to win a championship, and if they don’t, that’s a failed season.

Lakers are one of them.

I would suppose that right now, Minnesota, Denver, Knicks, Oklahoma City, you know, Boston, if Tatum was healthy, Boston, and even though Tatum is not healthy, Boston, and, you know, obviously Cleveland with the big acquisition they made and the big moves they made, obviously they’re going to try to win a chip inside of the next, you know, 24 months, and for everybody else, I mean, I think it’s a great opportunity for the teams that are not in their window to leverage that, right?

Oh, okay, well, we’ve got the guy you want, and if you want to pay for him, you can have him.

We’re not in our window, but do you want to wait long enough so that when we are in our window, we’re not going to trade you the guy you want?

Like, I think that there’s a lot of gamesmanship going on there, and I think that people who work in NBA front offices are not nearly as clueless as fans sometimes like to think, except for Chris Wallace.

Chris Wallace was an idiot.

Why don’t we just move on?

I think that, you know, to the listeners, we didn’t prepare like some, we don’t do like, oh, what are we going to do?

How are we going to do this?

Okay, three minutes on the James Harden-Darius Garland trade, but I think we should do is like, John, tell me a trade that you want to talk about.

Let’s talk about it, and then I’ll tell you a trade I want to talk about, and then we’ll talk about it.

You go first.

Yeah, so the Cleveland and Clippers trade is a fascinating one.

Why is it fascinating to you?

It’s fascinating because this is, to what we were just talking about, you know, teams pushing their chips all in, Cleveland is clearly making, you know, a trade for, I mean, Garland and Harden is definitely better than Garland is going to go to the Hall of Fame, whatever, but he’s also on the tail end of his career, so looking at the upside of Harden versus Garland, you know, you have to be like, oh, this is, they’re getting James Harden for this year and maybe next year, probably tops in terms of like return on investment, so, you know, this is a move by Cleveland to like win now and maybe win next year, and, you know, I think it’s actually pretty smart on the Clippers, one of the few smart things I think they’ve done recently, but that’s a whole other topic, you know, I think Ballmer feels like there isn’t a salary cap in the NBA, but, you know, that’s a whole other issue as well, but anyway, yeah, what do you think?

I mean, do you think it’s an interesting trade?

I think it’s an interesting trade.

I think that, like, there has been some concern in Cleveland that Darius Garland has regressed a little bit, and I think that’s unfair.

I think he has some foot injuries, and I don’t know if you know this, but basketball is hard to play if you have injured feet or toes.

Toes, yeah.

Toes.

Plural.

I also think that what they’re trying to do in signaling with this trade is that they expect, you know, Donovan Mitchell to opt out after next year, and I would too.

Like, so right now, Donovan Mitchell is signed for this year and for next year, and he has a player option for 27-28, and he’s an unrestricted free agent the year after that.

So basically, this gives the Cavs, like, two-year window, or two-season window, right?

To my point, yeah.

Yeah, like, it’s now, and the thing is, like, so Donovan Mitchell is in his year 30 season next year, and, like, so he’s in his physical prime, he’s in his prime, but he will regress.

And James Harden is, like, he’s, like, 36.

So James Harden, this is his last kick at the camp.

And Donovan Mitchell, this is the, you know, like, Donovan, like, if you look at Cleveland, Mitchell, Harden, Jalen Tyson, Evan Mobley, Jared Allen is a really good starting five.

Can they stay healthy?

I don’t know.

Is everybody going to get the ball enough?

I don’t know.

Is Donovan Mitchell going to thrive playing off-ball?

I don’t know.

But what I do know is that I think it’s a good move, right?

I have complicated feelings about James Harden, but he’s a first ballot Hall of Famer, and he’s really fucking good at basketball.

And Darius Garland now has time to rehab his injury.

You know, the Clippers are throwing in the towel for the season, and maybe they are, and maybe they’re not, or maybe they’re just reloading and retooling because some of their picks and some of their young guys are starting to show signs of growth, including but not limited to my boy Kobe Sanders, who was drafted last year in the late second round.

I was shocked that he lasted that long.

He’s a very talented kid.

It’s probably just because he was 23.

Jordan Miller has looked great lately.

Yannick Konan Niedermeyer has looked good in limited minutes.

Obviously, Brooke Lopez is towards the end of his career.

He’s going to come off the books.

So, like, I think that the Clippers are basically saying, hey, you know, we gave it a shot.

We’re not going to compete this year.

And Cleveland’s like, we gave it a shot with the Garland.

Like, it was sex land, right?

Colin Sexton, Darius Garland backcourt.

And then it was Garland Mitchell.

And now it’s Garland Harden.

Basically, they’re saying, sorry, Mitchell and Harden.

And now they’re saying that if this can’t get us to the mountaintop, it’s not like we didn’t try, right?

And so I applaud that, right?

I think that this is a good move for both teams, considering what their windows are and what their realistic title chances are.

I think Cleveland is as talented as anybody in the East, but can they put it together?

I don’t know.

Okay, so is it my turn to talk about a trade?

Yeah, what do you find interesting?

I think that the trade that I want to talk about is the one that happened late last night that sent Chris Epps Porzingis to the Golden State Warriors in exchange for Buddy Heald and Jonathan Kaminga.

Kaminga is finally out of Golden State, or he is finally away from Steve Kerr, right?

And my assumption is that now it’s put up or shut up time, and Atlanta thinks that it’s a good idea, and it is.

But I also think this is an audition for Jonathan Kaminga.

Don’t forget that he didn’t sign with Golden State until late in the process last year.

He was an RFA, he ended up signing a two-year, $46 million deal, and the second year of that deal is a team option.

So this was a sort of show us that you have what it takes year for Golden State and Kaminga, and Kerr and Kaminga, whatever their issues are, he was never going to work there.

So now Kaminga, an absurdly talented guy with questionable decision-making, like talent doesn’t do everything, goes to Atlanta.

Chris Epps Porzingis is like a bona fide, solid, solid player for Golden State to try to make a run with, but I think we both know that Golden State’s not doing anything.

To my boy Hades, who is going to listen to this podcast and get mad at me for saying that, I’m sorry, but I think we both know that Steph Curry is not going to get another championship, or if he is, it’s not going to be with Golden State.

It’s just not.

They have no chance.

But I like that trade, but also from Atlanta’s perspective, Chris Epps Porzingis was expiring, so he wasn’t going to come back, probably, and now you’ve got Jonathan Kaminga, who is an absurdly talented guy, and perhaps more interestingly, Atlanta’s entire team is like iterations of the same guy.

Take away Onyeka Okungwu, and take away Dyson Daniels, and every player is kind of an iteration of the same guy.

And some people may not like it, but my main Dynasty team is kind of built to be, as one general manager put it, death by wings.

And I think Atlanta, IRL, is built to be death by wings now, because just think about this for a second.

Jalen Johnson, Nikhil Alexander-Walker, Zachary Briseche, Corey Kispert, Jonathan Team and succeed.

Cooper Flagg could take a G League team, you know, and be better than, like, the worst NBA team.

Right?

But then there’s guys who need to be in a good situation or might not be in the right situation, and, and, and, and, and.

And Utah just collected a whole bunch of talent, and I think this is like how bodybuilders bulk and cut.

I think that getting all those picks and drafting all those guys was bulking, and now I think they’re cutting.

The other thing I think is important to note is that the Derek Favors trade to Oklahoma City in 2021 promised Oklahoma City a Jazz first-run pick in 2024.

That pick was protected a certain place.

It didn’t convey in 2024.

It didn’t convey in 2025.

If Utah picks in the top eight, that pick doesn’t convey this year either and turns into a 2028 second.

So there’s an incentive for Utah to lose this year, too, because do you want to send a great pick or a good pick and a great draft to Oklahoma City, who definitely doesn’t need another good player?

I don’t know.

But also, like, the thing that has never really made any sense to me about Utah is Lowry Markkman.

I think that the trade to acquire him, you know, the Donovan Mitchell deal was smart.

I think that first year, Lowry showed us what he can do.

And then the last couple years have been a combination of is Lowry hurt or is Lowry quote-unquote hurt so that the Jazz can tank?

And I think that’s been bad for the league, and I think that’s been bad for the Jazz, and I think that’s been bad for Lowry, especially in his value, because now we don’t know.

Now is it, oh, is Lowry fragile?

Does he have trade value?

And the goss was that Lowry reassigned in Utah because he said he wanted to be there long term.

I wonder if that is still the same case today.

Now, I think Lowry is a consummate professional.

I watched him play in Toronto this past Sunday.

We beat the Jazz, although we played like ass.

And he’s a tremendous talent.

So I’m wondering why he’s still on a roster that, as you say, probably isn’t going to compete for two years minimum.

That’s the thing for me.

But I also, like again, like Danny Ainge is a basketball genius.

He knows what he’s doing.

And I think that the new ownership in Utah has given him a runway.

And I really like a lot of the Jazz kids.

I’m just in love with Kobe.

Sorry, Keontae George.

I love Isaiah Collier.

He’s one of my partner’s favorite players just because he looks like a little bulldog.

And he also looks like just such a sweet kid.

I am such a believer in Cody Williams, even though he’s had a rough start to his career.

I think that a lot of the talent is good.

And I think that the coach, I think Will Hardy is a great coach.

And his record doesn’t bear that out.

But sometimes you get a great coach into a bad situation, it takes a couple of years.

We don’t all get handed championship teams like Joe Mizzoula.

So that’s what I think.

And thank you for giving me this space.

And I know that I’ve been going a little bit long.

But before we started recording this podcast, I sat in a town hall meeting at work for an hour and didn’t say anything.

So this is about them, not you.

What do you want to talk about next?

What’s your trade?

I’m going to give you a trade.

I’m going to give you a trade, and I want to know what you think.

The big-ass Anthony Davis to Washington trade that sent a bunch of guys to Washington from Dallas and a bunch of guys to Dallas from Washington.

I can tell you the personnel if you need to, but why don’t you just start with what your impressions of that are?

I mean, my impressions are, honestly, I’m just glad that I’m not a Dallas Mavericks fan.

If you take in sum total basically what you got back for sending Luka Doncic to the Lakers, I’m looking at this and I’m just like, Chris Middleton, AJ Johnson, Malachi Branham, Marvin Bagley III.

I mean, yes, we got a bunch of picks back.

I think you’re forgetting the main thing.

They got Cooper Flag.

There’s nobody on earth that can convince me that that wasn’t a backroom deal.

No, that was a backroom deal.

That was 100% a backroom deal.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Conspiracy theory 101.

LeBron James going to Cleveland with the first pick?

The guy from Akron?

Cooper Flag going to Dallas the same season that they mysteriously trade their franchise icon and one of the best five players in the world?

Like, come on.

It doesn’t change the fact that if I’m a Mavs fan, I’m pissed.

Yeah, I’m not saying that you shouldn’t be pissed, but I just want to make sure that you…

And if I’m not a Mavs fan, I’m just laughing my butt off because it’s hilarious.

I mean, don’t get me wrong.

I like a lot of the guys in Dallas, and I want the best for those guys that I like, including the guys I don’t like.

I want the best for Kyrie Irving.

He’s a crazy person, but I think he might actually be a net good in the universe.

I love Dan Gafford.

I’ve been a fan of Dan Gafford since he was not playing in Chicago.

I like P.J.

Washington.

His off-court life is fucking messy as hell, but I like him.

I’m a huge Mac Christie guy, and so is my boy Nate out in Vancouver.

Half of the conversations with my friend Nate are about Max Christie and how I’m never, ever going to trade him to you in the new league, Nate.

They have some really interesting pieces, and Cooper is just…

Cooper Flag is just…

He’s so much…

He’s so advanced.

Watching him is a fucking joy.

And I think that the casuals and the blog boys and the people who really only look at box scores really ought to watch the games to see this kid’s mind work in real time, because it’s really, really special.

Yeah, no.

The thing I’ve read repeatedly and seen also in person is that Cooper Flag has an incredibly high basketball IQ, and he always, or almost always, makes the right choice.

The problem is he currently doesn’t have the right people around him that when he makes the right choice, they then execute whatever the correct choice would have been.

Yeah.

Well, okay, so the trade in full is, what is it?

Davis, Jaden Hardy, D’Angelo Russell, Dante Exum.

So that’s Davis and three guards.

Yep.

Three guards who…

Two of them who were not playing.

Exum wasn’t playing because he’s hurt, and D’Angelo Russell wasn’t playing because he’s D’Angelo Russell.

Whatever happened to him?

Former all-star D’Angelo Russell.

He’s empty calories.

That’s all.

I guess.

Jaden Hardy is a gunner, but do they need another gunner?

No.

And then they got Chris Middleton, which you’ve got to figure is either there to mentor people or to get bought out and end up a Laker or something like that.

A.J.

Johnson, who was a, I want to say a late first or early second by Milwaukee in last year’s draft.

Very bouncy, very talented, but needs opportunity.

Malachi Branham, who is a Spurs firster from like a 2022, I think.

He was a buck at Ohio State.

Marvin Bagley, who was a second overall pick in the Luka draft that everybody will remember about him, but people don’t really realize that he’s actually been a very, very serviceable backup big and spot starter, and his time in Washington undoubtedly helped Alex Saar mature as a big.

Two first rounders and three second rounders go to Washington as well.

So Washington has turned Kyle Kuzma, basically, because Kuzma went to Milwaukee for Middleton.

They basically turned Kyle Kuzma plus into Anthony Davis, and they basically turned very little into Trae Young.

So now you have a bona fide star point guard in his prime with a bunch of young talent, including that limited to Bob Carrington, Trae Johnson, Alex Saar, Bilal Koulibaly, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

And then you have Anthony Davis.

Now, if he plays, he plays.

If he gets traded at Contender, which you’ve got to figure might happen in the offseason, I really hate this for Anthony Davis just because of the fact that he’s such a great player, and he’s struggled with injuries, and sometimes that’s just how bodies are, and he takes so much shit, and he gets made fun of by everybody.

And I’m not saying that I’ve never done it, but I think people need to remember how good Anthony Davis is.

And I’m not saying that that is the main variable of this trade, but I think that one of my closest sports pals, and he’s a close friend.

I don’t know why I said that, but he lives in the DMV, and he’s a reluctant Wizards fan just by geography.

He’s more of a Baltimore Ravens, Baltimore Orioles fan, but he’s a Wizards fan because Baltimore doesn’t have a basketball team.

RIP the Baltimore Bullets.

And every time Washington does anything, and any time Washington has done anything in the last couple years, and this includes the Washington Mystics, by the way, I’ve texted him like, that’s so smart.

That’s so smart.

Oh, that’s so smart.

And I think that what they’re building in Washington is similar to what they’re building in Atlanta.

Atlanta’s a couple years down the road, but Washington’s got a lot of talent.

The kids are like Carrington and Trey